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Post by debbifer on Nov 13, 2007 0:32:19 GMT
I noticed though that you didn't answer her questions. Can a group choose its members on any basis it sees fit? Evening Wemod. Yes, but if that basis is racism, then the rest of us don't have any obligation to have anything to do with them. Anymore then I have to invite you round my house for tea and crumpets. There's places online where Nazi fucks can hang out. The general pagan community doesn't have to be one of them. Technically, it was the posting on a neo-nazi forum that implied that. And let's be clear. The only reason this came into the public light was because it was exposed. At no point have the DoF ever seen fit to mention this policy before, including on their website. That's hardly the actions of a group with nothing to hide. In fact, when previously asked outright, Wemod tried to change the subject. Not only are the DoF fascists, they're also cowards. But they are sexist as well. Does this mean they would persecute men? A fascist is someone who would try and tell others what to think. Have they ever done that? Have you?
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Post by Boojum on Nov 13, 2007 0:36:31 GMT
But they are sexist as well. Does this mean they would persecute men? Way to avoid the subject. No it's not. Read a dictionary. Or the wiki. Moron. Anyway Wemod, I'm afraid I'm off to bed, so I'll have to wait to read your no doubt insightful replies till tommorow. Start posting intelligently by then, or get bounced.
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Post by debbifer on Nov 13, 2007 1:01:59 GMT
But they are sexist as well. Does this mean they would persecute men? Way to avoid the subject. The fact is that you have made an invalid assumption. You have jumped to the conclusion that any group that excludes certain individuals must therefore hate those individuals.
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Post by illgrace on Nov 13, 2007 2:38:40 GMT
Bottom line :
Your group advertised and attempted to recruit on a Nazi white supremacists forum. By definition, all 'non-white', 'non-Aryan', Jewish or gay people are considered to be only fit for death by such groups. Indeed, it says right in your 'book' that such People as 'non-Aryan's or black people are a 'contamination' to you.
Sorry, you cannot talk yourself out of it. YOU ADVERTISED FOR RECRUITS ON A NAZI FORUM. That TELLS people 'who you hate'.
Period.
Now why don't you go back to your Nazi loli Hentai. You probably have it on your 'favourites' list. Heh.
Illgrace
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Post by debbifer on Nov 13, 2007 8:48:33 GMT
Sorry, you cannot talk yourself out of it. YOU ADVERTISED FOR RECRUITS ON A NAZI FORUM. That TELLS people 'who you hate'. Does it?
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Post by illgrace on Nov 13, 2007 8:54:18 GMT
YES, YES AND YES.
Man, I'd know it was you on any forum in the world! Was that the BEST you could come up with? Man, how hungry for 'print' ARE you. Oh, sorry, it answers itself.
So, here's a question you can't dodge, though I'm sure you'll try:
WHY did DoF advertise for recruits at a White supremacist and Racial Hate forum? And please, don't answer a question with a question, it makes you look learning disabled.
Illgrace
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Post by debbifer on Nov 13, 2007 8:58:46 GMT
YES, YES AND YES. Man, I'd know it was you on any forum in the world! Was that the BEST you could come up with? Man, how hungry for 'print' ARE you. Oh, sorry, it answers itself. So, here's a question you can't dodge, though I'm sure you'll try: WHY did DoF advertise for recruits at a White supremacist and Racial Hate forum? And please, don't answer a question with a question, it makes you look learning disabled. Illgrace You are allowing your own prejudice and (dare I say it) hatred cloud your judgement. You just *know* the DoF are up to no good, and nothing will pursuade you otherwise.
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Post by illgrace on Nov 13, 2007 9:06:42 GMT
YES, YES AND YES. Man, I'd know it was you on any forum in the world! Was that the BEST you could come up with? Man, how hungry for 'print' ARE you. Oh, sorry, it answers itself. So, here's a question you can't dodge, though I'm sure you'll try: WHY did DoF advertise for recruits at a White supremacist and Racial Hate forum? And please, don't answer a question with a question, it makes you look learning disabled. Illgrace You are allowing your own prejudice and (dare I say it) hatred cloud your judgement. You just *know* the DoF are up to no good, and nothing will pursuade you otherwise. How did I just know you couldn't or wouldn't answer the question. I wasn't asking about ME, I was asking about YOU. So I'll repeat the question: WHY did DoF advertise for recruits at a White supremacist and Racial Hate forum? If you avoid answering again, it will be assumed by everyone reading that you have confirmed your Nazi sympathies and are trying to say people who are anti-racist are 'prejudice'. Your answers are straight out of the 'How to answer anti-Nazi questions ' guidelines they give out at such places. Sounds just like a neo-Nazi speech. So tell us, Why? Why did DoF offer 'training camps and also, agree with the 'Aryan only' stance? And to answer your non-answer answer, tell us the 'good' of such places that you advertised there? What was the 'good' you were up to? Illgrace
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Post by Andy N on Nov 13, 2007 9:15:07 GMT
Firstly these are just my own personal comments and do not necessarily reflect the views of any Pagans organisations to which I belong - and there are a few Now - about this thread - what are you lot on? I've been around in Paganism in Britain long enough to have seen quite a few spats between various groups and individuals - and to have been the subject of personal attacks. I know how fond the Pagan world is of bitchcraft and also how destructive it can be. This stuff in this thread on this this board is fantasy and the sort of destructive bitchcraft that I keep hoping Pagans will grow out of. And before anyone starts squawking that I've gone to the dark side I can assure you that I haven't! My views have always been anti-nazi and indeed anti anything right wing. So having read this thread my suggestion is that you are wasting your time picking on PN and you could do something much more useful with your effort. There are Pagan organisations that could be worthy targets for this sort of ire. Some are genuinely thugs with no understanding of basic human rights, others really are neo-nazis and at least one really is a business with no particular aim other than making money. In my experience PN is none of these things. It most certainly is not pro-fascist and to suggest so is defamatory. In my opinion the real problem with discussions in a public forum, such as this or PN, is that they can quickly become defamatory - opening the people running such forums up to the possibility of being sued for libel even if they do not agree with what is being said. By simply "publishing" defamatory statements on a forum those running it become liable under English law. Do by all means stay calm and unemotional but at least base your discussions on facts in the real world instead of unjustifiable prejudice.
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Post by illgrace on Nov 13, 2007 9:20:28 GMT
++This stuff in this thread on this this board is fantasy and the sort of destructive bitchcraft that I keep hoping Pagans will grow out of. ++
So, you think organizations like the 'Pan Aryan Alliance' and 'Stormfront' are just 'destructive bitchcraft'? What about the people killed and maimed by their adherents? Do you think the rise of neo-Nazi's a 'fantasy'? Please read the papers. Do you also feel pagans should not speak out against such? If so, why?
As for PN, I think any forum would have a hard time in court (if it even got there) banning people who spoke out against predatory and Nazi groups, don't you?
Why did that thread disappear? Why was a group that advertised itself AS a Nazi group protected from being named on the forum?
Why were people who spoke out against hate (NOT 'bitchcraft', neo-Nazi hate) banned?
No answers were given.
I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. There are too many forums out there who DO speak out against race-hate to uphold the 'fear of legal action' myth.
Illgrace
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Post by debbifer on Nov 13, 2007 9:20:49 GMT
How did I just know you couldn't or wouldn't answer the question. I wasn't asking about ME, I was asking about YOU. So I'll repeat the question: WHY did DoF advertise for recruits at a White supremacist and Racial Hate forum? If you avoid answering again, it will be assumed by everyone reading that you have confirmed your Nazi sympathies and are trying to say people who are anti-racist are 'prejudice'. Your answers are straight out of the 'How to answer anti-Nazi questions ' guidelines they give out at such places. Sounds just like a neo-Nazi speech. So tell us, Why? Why did DoF offer 'training camps and also, agree with the 'Aryan only' stance? Illgrace The phrase 'training camp' is yours, not the DoF's. Making posts on a forum does not imply one is in agreement with the policies of that forum. This is such an obvious point that even one such as yourself should have spotted it, but apparently not. The trouble with fanatics of any stripe is that they give their cause a bad name. Fanatical anti-racists will see conspiracies in every corner, and anyone who talks to people who hold opposite views is forever beyond the pale. Next time I hear a news reporter say "linked to far right groups" I'll know there's a good chance that it means no more than this. So thank you, this has been a real eye-opener. If you don't like someone, you shout and scream and stamp your feet, drowning out what they have to say. You are the thought-police, the self-appointed guardians of everyone else's morality. You just *know* you're right, and people who *know* they're right are the most dangerous sort of people there are, because they are so often tempted to break the rules for the 'greater good'.
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Post by debbifer on Nov 13, 2007 9:25:37 GMT
Why did that thread disappear? Why was a group that advertised itself AS a Nazi group protected from being named on the forum? This is a typical example of your blatant distortion of truth, which is presumably one of the reasons why you were banned. The DoF have *never* advertised themselves as a Nazi group, and most assuredly are not. They do not condone violence of any kind.
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Post by illgrace on Nov 13, 2007 9:36:42 GMT
How did I just know you couldn't or wouldn't answer the question. I wasn't asking about ME, I was asking about YOU. So I'll repeat the question: WHY did DoF advertise for recruits at a White supremacist and Racial Hate forum? If you avoid answering again, it will be assumed by everyone reading that you have confirmed your Nazi sympathies and are trying to say people who are anti-racist are 'prejudice'. Your answers are straight out of the 'How to answer anti-Nazi questions ' guidelines they give out at such places. Sounds just like a neo-Nazi speech. So tell us, Why? Why did DoF offer 'training camps and also, agree with the 'Aryan only' stance? Illgrace The phrase 'training camp' is yours, not the DoF's. Making posts on a forum does not imply one is in agreement with the policies of that forum. This is such an obvious point that even one such as yourself should have spotted it, but apparently not. The trouble with fanatics of any stripe is that they give their cause a bad name. Fanatical anti-racists will see conspiracies in every corner, and anyone who talks to people who hold opposite views is forever beyond the pale. Next time I hear a news reporter say "linked to far right groups" I'll know there's a good chance that it means no more than this. So thank you, this has been a real eye-opener. If you don't like someone, you shout and scream and stamp your feet, drowning out what they have to say. You are the thought-police, the self-appointed guardians of everyone else's morality. You just *know* you're right, and people who *know* they're right are the most dangerous sort of people there are, because they are so often tempted to break the rules for the 'greater good'. No, the phrase 'training' at your ,hmm, place? ( I can understand you not liking the words 'Nazi' and 'Camp' together - people remember Nazi camps too well) was used by you, or 'Kornelia' who offered training at the DoF at the Pan Aryan Alliance site. I have the screen shot, as do many others. The PN decided to delete. Others did not.If you would like to refresh your memory, just type in Daughters of Frya and look at my LJ. But you've dodged the question again. Please answer it. Trying to side-track it isn't going to work. CAN you answer the question? Yes or no? If you don't, then the answer is obvious to anyone but the brain-dead. Illgrace
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Post by illgrace on Nov 13, 2007 9:39:10 GMT
Why did that thread disappear? Why was a group that advertised itself AS a Nazi group protected from being named on the forum? This is a typical example of your blatant distortion of truth, which is presumably one of the reasons why you were banned. The DoF have *never* advertised themselves as a Nazi group, and most assuredly are not. They do not condone violence of any kind. So tell us the 'truth'. WHY did the DoF choose to both advertise their 'training' and also, agree with many of the race-hate posts at Pan Aryan Alliance if you do not condone violence? After all, their bottom line is that those they don't care for should be eliminated - you know, killed? Or do you not view the killing of those 'other' than you as 'violence'? Interesting. Illgrace
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Post by debbifer on Nov 13, 2007 9:44:41 GMT
No, the phrase 'training' at your ,hmm, place? ( I can understand you not liking the words 'Nazi' and 'Camp' together - people remember Nazi camps too well) was used by you, or 'Kornelia' who offered training at the DoF at the Pan Aryan Alliance site. I have the screen shot, as do many others. The PN decided to delete. Others did not.If you would like to refresh your memory, just type in Daughters of Frya and look at my LJ. But you've dodged the question again. Please answer it. Trying to side-track it isn't going to work. CAN you answer the question? Yes or no? If you don't, then the answer is obvious to anyone but the brain-dead. Illgrace Yes, and it was you who put the word 'camp' in there, no doubt for the very reason you have just highlighted. This is a typical propagandist's tool, attacking one's opponent for something they haven't even said. Why did the DoF place a notice there? They have placed notices on many, many sites. It does not mean they agree with the policies of those sites. Have you considered the possibilty that they might have gone their in order to correct a few misunderstandings?
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