'Islamaphobia' - racism?

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illgrace
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Posts: 114

'Islamaphobia' - racism? Nov 19, 2007 5:44:53 GMT

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Post by illgrace on Nov 19, 2007 5:44:53 GMT

I am sure that as the author points out, most people did not catch this. Now, whether you agree with the writer or not, I think it's worth reading. I think it's worth reading for this reason: we are in a time of 'sound bites'. Whole cultures get confused with religions and frequently grouped under one or two convenient 'names' which convey...nothing of a very complex issue yet are exchanged as coins of 'knowledge'.

This is a long article but worth reading as I feel no one is immune to this.

[HERE]

++What do you make of the following statement: "Asians are gaining on us demographically at a huge rate. A quarter of humanity now and by 2025 they'll be a third. Italy's down to 1.1 child per woman. We're just going to be outnumbered." While we're at it, what do you think of this, incidentally from the same speaker: "The Black community will have to suffer until it gets its house in order." Or this, the same speaker again: "I just don't hear from moderate Judaism, do you?" And (yes, same speaker): "Strip-searching Irish people. Discriminatory stuff, until it hurts the whole Irish community and they start getting tough with their children."

The speaker was Martin Amis and, yes, the quotations have been modified, with Asians, Blacks and Irish here substituted for Muslims, and Judaism for Islam - though, it should be stressed, these are the only amendments. Terry Eagleton, professor of English literature at Manchester University, where Amis has also started to teach, recently quoted the remarks in a new edition of his book Ideology: An Introduction. Amis, Eagleton claimed, was advocating nothing less than the "hounding and humiliation" of Muslims so "they would return home and teach their children to be obedient to the White Man's law".

The heated exchanges that followed were trivialised in the mainstream media as "a nasty literary punch-up", "the talk of the literary world", "a spat" between "two warring professors", and the silence that followed seemed to confirm it as a passing tiff between two high-ranking members of the chattering class.

I see it differently. Amis's views are symptomatic of a much wider and deeper hostility to Islam and intolerance of otherness.++

It's not a matter of being 'P.C.' ( whatever the hell that means), it's a matter of being informed. To be informed REDUCES fear rather than increases it. Historically, too many people went along with the 'received wisdom' of the day and didn't look further but simply parroted what they had read or heard.

Be informed then form your own opinions, whatever they may be. But they should be 'INFORMED' opinions.

Illgrace

Last Edit: Nov 19, 2007 11:43:34 GMT by illgrace

paulmitchell
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Posts: 30

'Islamaphobia' - racism? Nov 19, 2007 20:53:44 GMT

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Post by paulmitchell on Nov 19, 2007 20:53:44 GMT

Not that I'm a particular fan of Martin Amis, but he did respond..

www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,,2189257,00.html

and ...

Amis also suggested today that Eagleton's attack is part of a pattern after the professor "did a similar job" on Amis's friend Salman Rushdie earlier this year. This was a reference to an article in which Eagleton suggested that Rushdie's knighthood was a "reward" for moving from being a "remorseless satirist of the west to cheering on its criminal adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan" - an article which led to Eagleton expressing "sincere apologies" for "falsely claiming that [Rushdie] supports the war on Iraq". Rushdie recently accused the Dutch government of "broken promises" in their treatment of the former member of the Dutch parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali, currently in hiding in the US.

from..

books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,2189868,00.html

Here's the original article (I think)..

observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1868732,00.html

I recall he wrote another article for The Times, addressed to a Musli friend of his, regarding the response to his initial article, but I can't seem to find it. The initial response to Amis' words were quite knee jerk in certain quarters, I recall. I shall try to read the original piece again.

illgrace
Full Member

Posts: 114

'Islamaphobia' - racism? Nov 20, 2007 10:08:28 GMT

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Post by illgrace on Nov 20, 2007 10:08:28 GMT

Thanks! It's always good to get both sides of a contentious question! I freely admit I can't catch every story and response so it's good to have people about who can add more!

( the problem being people then having to make up their minds ;D)

Illgrace

Boojum Administrator Posts: 109	'Islamaphobia' - racism? Nov 20, 2007 14:52:18 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Boojum on Nov 20, 2007 14:52:18 GMT To make things even more complicated, the article Illgrace cites is actually a response to Amis' response to Eagleton!
	If you really want I can name the names Be an angel of death at the children's games

cursuwalker
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Posts: 8

'Islamaphobia' - racism? Nov 23, 2007 22:01:03 GMT

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Post by cursuwalker on Nov 23, 2007 22:01:03 GMT

As an Atheist Pagan I spend a lot of time on richarddawkins.net.

On there the criticism of fundamentalist Islam is always based on the BELIEFS of muslims and NOT their race.

Islam, whatever else it may be, is not a racist faith. Once one is a muslim, of whatever type, ones race is irrelevant.

Those who choose to say that race and islam are connected are using criticism of islam to further a racist agenda.

saramacha
New Member

Posts: 6

'Islamaphobia' - racism? Nov 30, 2007 12:42:14 GMT

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Post by saramacha on Nov 30, 2007 12:42:14 GMT

Here where I live (rural but a commuter haven for Cork city) we have some Muslim families living here for the first time. This has created a problem for some of my (elderly) neighbours who are very suspicious and think everyone "arabic looking" are terrorists. Now, one of the families near me are flipping hardline fundies, the father is the rudest most insulting bloke you'd ever meet and he rubs everyone up the wrong way, the other families are lovely laid back people not a bother on them fitting in.
Most people talking to or about them, keep a very clear distinction in anything they say - eg, they talk about the individual man's behaviour rather than blame it on islam, or they criticise Islamic beliefs not the "non irishness" of the family...but there is a group who really use his behaviour to "proove" that "all of them want to see us under muslim rule" and so on.

I find myself often having conversations almost defending the fundie whom I detest

but what doesn't help is the fact that while on a personal level I know the other muslim families don't agree with him, they are very loath to say anything against him, even when he says pretty awful things. I wonder if it comes from fear, and that it's sucha small community it's just too hard to "stand out" by standing up or if it's a form of loyalty, a united front....anyway it can be a struggle insisting peopel differentiate between fundie islam and ordinary normal islamic people when moderate islam is silent

ETA: I can sympathise with my moderate neighbours, I was Irish in UK and I know what it's like to feel embarrased by fanatics! but as a result I really believe you, their own, have to speak up twice as loud...

Last Edit: Nov 30, 2007 12:45:24 GMT by saramacha

Pumazo
Guest

'Islamaphobia' - racism? Jun 15, 2008 6:06:17 GMT

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Post by Pumazo on Jun 15, 2008 6:06:17 GMT

Pagans/Occultists Against Fascism & Racism

'Islamaphobia' - racism?

Post by illgrace on Nov 19, 2007 5:44:53 GMT

Post by paulmitchell on Nov 19, 2007 20:53:44 GMT

Post by illgrace on Nov 20, 2007 10:08:28 GMT

Post by Boojum on Nov 20, 2007 14:52:18 GMT

Post by cursuwalker on Nov 23, 2007 22:01:03 GMT

Post by saramacha on Nov 30, 2007 12:42:14 GMT

Post by Pumazo on Jun 15, 2008 6:06:17 GMT

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